This is cool - feels great that there's a growing long-term incentive to implement open SDKs and APIs, for the sake of agent-forward prosumers, in the spirit of earlier internet stuff that used to do it but stopped.
bbgm 20 minutes ago [-]
Somewhat unrelated, but the number of times I have invoked Ableton as a metaphor of challenging the status quo is quite high. I was a Cubase user before Ableton showed up and completely upended the DAW world. And they've kept going.
This is just what I've been looking for. I never warmed to Max for Live for mods. But the extensions SDK I can get behind.
henry28256 9 minutes ago [-]
I've used the same metaphor for AI tools. The incumbents keep adding features to the old paradigm (like Cubase did). Then someone comes along and rethinks the interaction model entirely (like Ableton with Session View). AI tools are in that
transition moment right now — most are just adding AI to old workflows, not rethinking the workflow itself.
iainctduncan 2 hours ago [-]
For people into this sort of thing, another option is using my foss Max extension, Scheme for Max, to script Live through the live API using Scheme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0sKBA-Pv2c&t=1s
The live object model is MUCH nicer to use in a lisp, as basically you do everything by making dynamic lists to represent what you want to access! There are examples in the Scheme for Max help file.
(Also, Scheme for Max can run in the scheduler thread, unlike JS in Max. Though of course calls to the Live API are deferred to the lower priority thread anyway)
abstractbill 2 hours ago [-]
A couple of times I've tried somewhat seriously to build "google docs for ableton" (meaning two people editing the same project on different computers, seeing each other's edits in realtime). Frustratingly I decided it was impossible to do a really good job of it back then. This sounds like it might finally make it doable!
coldtea 28 minutes ago [-]
Don't kick yourself. It's not possible with Google Docs either. All these collaborative document editors have been mostly gimmicks/wastes of time.
peteforde 53 minutes ago [-]
I've often felt as though the way to make a DAW that competes with Ableton today would be to build the entire UI around composable scripted modules.
Far too much of Ableton's secret sauce is hidden away behind Max for Live and top-tier pricing only features. This is a great step in the right direction.
jmole 44 minutes ago [-]
There is zero "secret sauce" in max for live.
Ableton and Max are totally separate codebases, and "Max for Live" is just a ~VST interface between them.
I do agree that "scriptable Ableton" would be far better for production and sound design than Max, because they make all the hard parts easy: MIDI, sequencing, mixing, etc.
In Max, you have to build everything from scratch, every time.
peteforde 22 minutes ago [-]
I think we're talking past each other.
I don't own Max for Live. If I want to use it, I either need to upgrade to Ableton Suite for $500 or I need to upgrade to Standard and buy Max for Live separately (also $500).
There's a huge ecosystem of tools that are implemented as Max for Live packages which I cannot access because I haven't paid the toll.
I see that even this new Extensions SDK is only available to people who have paid for the full Suite edition.
I'd describe that as a market opportunity.
coldtea 26 minutes ago [-]
>Far too much of Ableton's secret sauce is hidden away behind Max for Live
The other way around. Ableton exposes some internal modules to Max for Live as Max for Live modules.
What Ableton gets from Max for Live is not internals, but basically a few Ableton-only Max-built plugins, that could as well use VST underneath.
peteforde 19 minutes ago [-]
I answered this in a different branch of the thread, but you're kind of missing my point. I don't own Max for Live, so the large ecosystem of useful tools that I'd enjoy trying out is unavailable to me.
It's not about special powers, just being forced to pay the gatekeeper to the otherwise free/OSS ecosystem.
dumbdumb125 44 minutes ago [-]
i could see this being something that AI takes a bite out of in the coming years
i've been making my own vst instruments and effects with faust, and codex knocks it out of the park; it's basically a trivial task
the only problem is that i have to use software that's external to DAWs. it's only a matter of time before this is first class in DAWs
macscam 2 hours ago [-]
This is great to see. Not widely known, but it's already been possible to write Python extensions for Ableton using the LOM, which I was doing via ClyphXPro. But this looks easier!
iainctduncan 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah, that was what got me into Live in the first place! Writing custom control surfaces in python from the reverse engineered stuff.
Nice to see they have put out options they will officially support though. I do admire that instead of saying "no you can't" they just said "we know those open python example scripts our there and we won't comment on them". :-)
43 minutes ago [-]
moralestapia 2 hours ago [-]
>Extensions are built on the NodeJS platform, a free, open-source, cross-platform JavaScript runtime environment.
I applied for a job with them and proposed this exact thing about 8 years ago (got auto-rejected, I would've been very happy to work on it).
But I'm glad to see they finally did it.
Kye 2 hours ago [-]
You could already use Node through M4L. I'm not clear on what this adds that wasn't already possible.
nopayne 2 hours ago [-]
With M4L you need to implement your feature in a device and add it to your project. My Ableton project template has a bunch of these on my main track. With extensions you use a context menu as the entry point which will hopefully be more lightweight. Hopefully they'll expose more of the object model over time and let us trigger these via keyboard/midi shortcuts.
coldtea 22 minutes ago [-]
M4L is basically a plugin sdk. It loads as a VST would (roughly), just with access to Ableton UI elements.
Ableton Extentions if a first class api to Live, kind of like AppleScript.
moralestapia 2 hours ago [-]
They made extensions first class, chose JavaScript as the primary language, and chose node.js as its runtime.
wahnfrieden 53 minutes ago [-]
Works for all tiers too
processing 28 minutes ago [-]
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Rendered at 00:09:41 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
This is just what I've been looking for. I never warmed to Max for Live for mods. But the extensions SDK I can get behind.
The live object model is MUCH nicer to use in a lisp, as basically you do everything by making dynamic lists to represent what you want to access! There are examples in the Scheme for Max help file.
(Also, Scheme for Max can run in the scheduler thread, unlike JS in Max. Though of course calls to the Live API are deferred to the lower priority thread anyway)
Far too much of Ableton's secret sauce is hidden away behind Max for Live and top-tier pricing only features. This is a great step in the right direction.
Ableton and Max are totally separate codebases, and "Max for Live" is just a ~VST interface between them.
I do agree that "scriptable Ableton" would be far better for production and sound design than Max, because they make all the hard parts easy: MIDI, sequencing, mixing, etc.
In Max, you have to build everything from scratch, every time.
I don't own Max for Live. If I want to use it, I either need to upgrade to Ableton Suite for $500 or I need to upgrade to Standard and buy Max for Live separately (also $500).
There's a huge ecosystem of tools that are implemented as Max for Live packages which I cannot access because I haven't paid the toll.
I see that even this new Extensions SDK is only available to people who have paid for the full Suite edition.
I'd describe that as a market opportunity.
The other way around. Ableton exposes some internal modules to Max for Live as Max for Live modules.
What Ableton gets from Max for Live is not internals, but basically a few Ableton-only Max-built plugins, that could as well use VST underneath.
It's not about special powers, just being forced to pay the gatekeeper to the otherwise free/OSS ecosystem.
i've been making my own vst instruments and effects with faust, and codex knocks it out of the park; it's basically a trivial task
the only problem is that i have to use software that's external to DAWs. it's only a matter of time before this is first class in DAWs
Nice to see they have put out options they will officially support though. I do admire that instead of saying "no you can't" they just said "we know those open python example scripts our there and we won't comment on them". :-)
I applied for a job with them and proposed this exact thing about 8 years ago (got auto-rejected, I would've been very happy to work on it).
But I'm glad to see they finally did it.
Ableton Extentions if a first class api to Live, kind of like AppleScript.